"flatisflat" (flatisflat)
09/30/2020 at 13:40 • Filed to: None
3
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"flatisflat" (flatisflat)
09/30/2020 at 13:40 • Filed to: None | 3
| 17 |
STi BBS Wheels and summer tires on a Forester make for good times.
Nearly any vehicle can be a fun canyon carver; slow car fast, right?
HammerheadFistpunch
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 13:56 |
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Not every vehicle. I lit the brakes on fire in my 96 rav4 canyon carving. Going slowly up is fine, coming down...brakes are important.
CobraJoe
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 13:57 |
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Nearly any vehicle can be a fun canyon carver; slow car fast, right?
Some more than others.
I will say that our ‘12 Outback was shockingly good, and the ‘09 Corolla my wife used to have was shockingly bad.
You can make any slow car go “fast”, but that doesn’t always mean it will be fun.
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flatisflat
> HammerheadFistpunch
09/30/2020 at 14:02 |
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Mmmm, indeed. Good point!
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flatisflat
> CobraJoe
09/30/2020 at 14:06 |
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I think that’s part of it. ‘Fast’ is relative, and so long as you’re playing around near or at the limits of adhesion of that particular vehicle is the fun part, yeah?
But, to what I believe is your point, pushing a car toward its limits isn’t actually an enjoyable experience. But (to my point), I think there are far more ‘fun’ options out there than either “small and zippy” or “overpowered and sensational”.
smobgirl
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:08 |
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The van can go plenty fast but the whole stopping/slowing for corners and not tipping over part is where things get a little sketchy.
Boxer_4
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:08 |
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This is the preview I saw - still knew it was an SF Forester.
I’d say many cars are more fun than they would appear canyon carving so long as you are aware of their limits.
dogisbadob
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:09 |
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That Forester is just an Impreza 2.5RS wagon :o)
Also, you can get one with a really big sunroof that’s lots of fun
Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:11 |
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It largely depends on the car and how accessible its near-limits are (plus tire choice plays a large part). Slow car fast can be tons of fun but sometimes you’d rather drive a slow car slow.
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CobraJoe
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:21 |
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I think that’s part of it. ‘Fast’ is relative, and so long as you’re playing around near or at the limits of adhesion of that particular vehicle is the fun part, yeah?
It can be fun, but it also might be horrible. That corolla would start understeering immediately when the speeds started going “above normal”.
Having the limit so low, and losing traction in a way that actively discourages driving near the limit, just makes it depressing to be on a fun road.
But (to my point), I think there are far more ‘fun’ options out there than either “small and zippy” or “overpowered and sensational”.
From my experience, I believe that “fun” cars simply have responsive controls. It doesn’t need to be fast, it just needs to rev and try to push the car faster. It doesn’t need a lot of grip, it just needs to quickly respond to turning the wheel.
That’s what made the Corolla so horrid, it was sluggish to respond in every respect. Floor the gas, and it wouldn’t accelerate any harder or even downshift. Turn the wheel, and the suspension would roll over before any change in direction. (Plus it was massively uncomfortable). Hell, my FIL’s Prius is more fun .
But to your point, the average car is far more fun now than it used to be. I learned that while driving the Outback in the black hills. I would never have believed that a high riding, base level, 4cyl, CVT, family CUV would be so good.
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flatisflat
> dogisbadob
09/30/2020 at 14:24 |
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It totally was! :)
and 100 more
> flatisflat
09/30/2020 at 14:49 |
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Here, near Austin, is a curvy, hilly, unfortunately short little rural road thru the forest. I like to drive it once in awhile, at speeds which... well, the posted limit is one thing, and what I drive on it is another.
I’ve driven it in a 2008 Jeep Patriot. Not your typical “canyon carver”, by any stretch, but for what it was, it was a blast to throw around that road. FWD, 5-speed manual, lots of sidewall on dem meats... it was more fun than it had any right to be. I liken it to an American version of the 4-door Mk4 Golf - a little taller, fatter, bigger in the ass, and slightly dumber than it’s German counterpart.
I’ve also driven that road in my 2012 Grand Cherokee. RWD, torquey V6, widened stance (thanks to 1" wheel spacers), and... ugh. It fucking sucks. That thing is a pig of a vehicle, and you feel it in every turn. The ass end stays planted, until it suddenly doesn’t, and the razor-thin line between traction and side slip seems to vary from one moment to the next. The non-defeatable traction control doesn’t help either, as when it’s “ on” it is overbearing; and when it’s “off” (it’s never really off), it gives you enough room to make the situation scary, and then it steps in at the last second with correction that seems to almost be worse than the skid. The Grand Cherokee is at home when the driving is slow and leisurely, the curves are wide, and you’re not really engaged. It prefers smooth inputs, and doesn’t take to abrupt changes well.
I can imagine worse vehicles for tossing around switchbacks and decreasing-radius curves, but the Grand Cherokee definitely is NOT a canyon carver.
MUSASHI66
> CobraJoe
09/30/2020 at 16:22 |
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We have very, very different opinions on how good a canyon carver 2012 Outback can be. My 2008 Outback with a manual was sort of fun, but the 2010 with the CVT was such a boring vehicle.
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CobraJoe
> MUSASHI66
09/30/2020 at 17:41 |
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Did you take it on a winding road? It takes corners surprisingly well. (I wouldn’t claim it’s a performance vehicle, but it was amazing for what it is).
T he CVT was pretty bland on it’s own, but no worse than any other non-performance automatic. BUT, the paddle shifters were amazingly snappy . It “ shifts” quicker than any other automatic I have ever experienced.
O
ddly though
, I hated the manual in the ‘05 legacy gt I owned at the same time. It had a
sloppy shifter, a
dead clutch, and the power delivery was poorly suited to the manual gearing. (Either you were too slow to keep up with traffic, or the turbo started spooling and you almost hit the car in front of you).
It must be said though , the Outback is a basic family hauler , so it was utterly mind blowing to me that it was so much fun on the twisting roads in the black hills. If the LGT was that much fun on the same roads , I would have chalked it up to meeting expectations as a performance sedan.
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MUSASHI66
> CobraJoe
09/30/2020 at 18:39 |
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We just have had a different transmission :). Other than “it worked”, I don’t remember anything so nice about the tranny or the suspension. I live in Colorado, so that car has been through plenty of canyons and windy roads, and compared to the 2008, it always just felt like a blob on wheels.
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CobraJoe
> MUSASHI66
09/30/2020 at 20:58 |
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I wonder how much changed bet ween 2010 and 2012, or how different the experience could be due to manufacturing variations.
Because when it was left in auto, it was fine. Nothing to brag about, but not much to complain about either .
But when you put it in manual mode, it shifted immediately, on command, with close ratio gears, and would hold a gear as long as you wanted to. A great option for a non-enthusiast’ s car.
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MUSASHI66
> CobraJoe
09/30/2020 at 22:26 |
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Nothing has changed between 2010 and 2012. They added folding mirrors in 2013 :)
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CobraJoe
> MUSASHI66
10/01/2020 at 09:12 |
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Well, nothing obvious has changed. It’s very possible that they tinkered with the tuning and the transmission mapping, and very possible that some small parts were revised.
I really don’t know how much of a “continuous improvement” type of company Subaru is. I know Ford is happy to change almost anything in between major changes.